personally, I'm a big fan of the gel. It's what we used in BPD, we had the spray in Uncle's nuclear powered canoe club, and if the mutt is wearing glasses, or even worse, safety goggles, it doesn't work worth a shit. The gel, if you lay it just above the glasses runs down behind them, and works just fine.
Short story about application:
We had a senior officer, with around 15 years on the force, respond to a noise complaint in Section 8 housing. During his dealings with the individual, as they were talking through a patio sliding door, he made a huge error. He relaxed.
He placed his right (gun, in his case) hand on the door jam. Yeah, I can hear the winces from here. As you guessed, this 10-28 decided that "this interview is over" by slamming the door shut. He almost got free.
Almost.
The door got shut severing his right index finger at the base. He immediately calls for help, of course, and since this is literally across the street from where the department office was at the time, response was immediate and full.
When we got there, our officer was in a full fetal cradling his hand and crying. His finger was still twitching inside. Mutt is nowhere to be found.
So we roll a band aide box, and go inside--After announcing ourselves.
We clear the place, and find her in the shower. Seems she got some blood on herself, and wanted to shower it off!
So we tell her to get out of the shower, while covering her with our pistols... and she refuses.
Lead officer again tells her to get out of the shower.
"No" and continues to shower.
Out comes the can, he shakes it up, and says "last chance, get out, or I will pepper spray you."
She turns and says "no" and gets hit in the face with gel before she can turn back. (now I should mention the shower is HOT.
Well, she turns back into the water flow and it runs down her front. She's now screaming, and washing vigorously. (this does not help her)
Lead officer again commands "get out of the shower NOW."
No response, and no compliance. He checks to make sure the cover officers are covering her, then reaches in and turns off the shower. She turns to scream at him, while reaching to turn the water back on, and he empties the can all over her front.
She left in the second aid car, strapped to a gurney to be decontaminated at the hospital before being sent to KCSO jail, and to the best of my knowledge is still in Western State, un-prosecutable in the DA's opinion, due to mental instability. The injured officer never returned to duty, the finger was reattached, but he only regained about 20% use, and the city would not allow him to go back to work with only one functioning trigger finger.
A friend got pepper spray for large dog deterrent for when she was walking her dog. But she got the cloud kind. And someone in the household lit it off inadvertently. They had to evacuate her aged mom. So now she carries nothing. I think the suggestion to get training is a really good one.
I have found Dawn dishwashing soap to be the best at removing it. Oleoresin being an oil, it works great. TECNU poison ivy scrub works pretty well too, as it is designed to remove Urushiol. Personally, I'm a fan of Vexor. Has a longer recovery time, which is better for the private citizen who needs to put distance between themselves and an attacker.
Saw a guy I knew get hammered with pepper spray. I was exiting the Stop and Rob I worked at, as it was end of shift for me.
He was defending his sisters honor against a car load of Aggie Frat Bros, and one of them ended the argument with a can o' hate.
He went down, the car tore off - only to be stopped by local PD because they were weaving due to over spray hitting the driver, and I wandered over to help.*
I drug his snot slinging person over to the Stop N' Rob's exterior faucet and began applying dihydrogen monoxide in copious amounts. He finally cracks an eye and asks how I'm standing there doing what I'm doing - he's shedding snot and waves of pepper spray in equal amounts.
"Last time I got gassed you couldn't see your hand until your fingers touched the glass on the mask, and then we took the masks off,' I replied.
*Yes, because of where they were parked and the argument occured, I got hit with over spray as well.
Not legal in The People's Democratic Republic of Canada, last I checked. I have to remember to take all the useful stuff out of the truck every time I go visit the Parental Units. Firearms, check. Magazines, check. Loose ammo, check. Asp, check. Pepper spray, check. Camping gear/emergency bag with big knife, check.
Thank you for the tip on the baby shampoo for exposure. That's good to know. I did have a can that called for rotation and spray and I never liked that aspect. I'm glad you recommend against it. I'll make sure to follow your advice here. Awesome post, Ian.
I have Kimber Pepper Blaster II which is sort of like a less than lethal derringer. I also have a sap to fall back on and all this is secondary to my handgun.
Personally don't like multiple levels of escalation, because odds are if Plan A doesn't work, you need to go straight to Plan Kill Em All and don't have time to wander about somewhere between them.
That’s something that I have considered. However if I decide ahead of time that the only thing I’m carrying will be the handgun there could be issues if I light some drunk bully up when a couple of doses of spice or a judicious application of leather and lead could have done the trick then I just set myself up for a lot of paperwork. And I have had more events where slapping a loudmouth with a palm sap was what I did and I walked away from the scene and never heard another word
I mean one non-lethal solution and one lethal. There's certainly situations where you want that intermediate step (one aggressive dog, one aggressive drunk) before spilling blood, but having multiple paths of escalation are not going to filter well in a tense moment.
As an OC Instructor qualified under Chuck Haggard, I approve this message. OC is a great tool in the proper context.
personally, I'm a big fan of the gel. It's what we used in BPD, we had the spray in Uncle's nuclear powered canoe club, and if the mutt is wearing glasses, or even worse, safety goggles, it doesn't work worth a shit. The gel, if you lay it just above the glasses runs down behind them, and works just fine.
Short story about application:
We had a senior officer, with around 15 years on the force, respond to a noise complaint in Section 8 housing. During his dealings with the individual, as they were talking through a patio sliding door, he made a huge error. He relaxed.
He placed his right (gun, in his case) hand on the door jam. Yeah, I can hear the winces from here. As you guessed, this 10-28 decided that "this interview is over" by slamming the door shut. He almost got free.
Almost.
The door got shut severing his right index finger at the base. He immediately calls for help, of course, and since this is literally across the street from where the department office was at the time, response was immediate and full.
When we got there, our officer was in a full fetal cradling his hand and crying. His finger was still twitching inside. Mutt is nowhere to be found.
So we roll a band aide box, and go inside--After announcing ourselves.
We clear the place, and find her in the shower. Seems she got some blood on herself, and wanted to shower it off!
So we tell her to get out of the shower, while covering her with our pistols... and she refuses.
Lead officer again tells her to get out of the shower.
"No" and continues to shower.
Out comes the can, he shakes it up, and says "last chance, get out, or I will pepper spray you."
She turns and says "no" and gets hit in the face with gel before she can turn back. (now I should mention the shower is HOT.
Well, she turns back into the water flow and it runs down her front. She's now screaming, and washing vigorously. (this does not help her)
Lead officer again commands "get out of the shower NOW."
No response, and no compliance. He checks to make sure the cover officers are covering her, then reaches in and turns off the shower. She turns to scream at him, while reaching to turn the water back on, and he empties the can all over her front.
She left in the second aid car, strapped to a gurney to be decontaminated at the hospital before being sent to KCSO jail, and to the best of my knowledge is still in Western State, un-prosecutable in the DA's opinion, due to mental instability. The injured officer never returned to duty, the finger was reattached, but he only regained about 20% use, and the city would not allow him to go back to work with only one functioning trigger finger.
A friend got pepper spray for large dog deterrent for when she was walking her dog. But she got the cloud kind. And someone in the household lit it off inadvertently. They had to evacuate her aged mom. So now she carries nothing. I think the suggestion to get training is a really good one.
I have found Dawn dishwashing soap to be the best at removing it. Oleoresin being an oil, it works great. TECNU poison ivy scrub works pretty well too, as it is designed to remove Urushiol. Personally, I'm a fan of Vexor. Has a longer recovery time, which is better for the private citizen who needs to put distance between themselves and an attacker.
Saw a guy I knew get hammered with pepper spray. I was exiting the Stop and Rob I worked at, as it was end of shift for me.
He was defending his sisters honor against a car load of Aggie Frat Bros, and one of them ended the argument with a can o' hate.
He went down, the car tore off - only to be stopped by local PD because they were weaving due to over spray hitting the driver, and I wandered over to help.*
I drug his snot slinging person over to the Stop N' Rob's exterior faucet and began applying dihydrogen monoxide in copious amounts. He finally cracks an eye and asks how I'm standing there doing what I'm doing - he's shedding snot and waves of pepper spray in equal amounts.
"Last time I got gassed you couldn't see your hand until your fingers touched the glass on the mask, and then we took the masks off,' I replied.
*Yes, because of where they were parked and the argument occured, I got hit with over spray as well.
Not legal in The People's Democratic Republic of Canada, last I checked. I have to remember to take all the useful stuff out of the truck every time I go visit the Parental Units. Firearms, check. Magazines, check. Loose ammo, check. Asp, check. Pepper spray, check. Camping gear/emergency bag with big knife, check.
Ugh.
Excellent advice. Thank you for posting this.
Thank you for the tip on the baby shampoo for exposure. That's good to know. I did have a can that called for rotation and spray and I never liked that aspect. I'm glad you recommend against it. I'll make sure to follow your advice here. Awesome post, Ian.
> Cone/fog pepper spray is really more of an Area Denial Munition3, and when it’s deployed, everyone — including you — gets a dose of Spicy Hate.
Soooooo....... pepper grenade?
Exactly how much trouble will a person get in for that?
If you're using it as defence against an immediate threat, you should be fine. Talk to a lawyer in your area about it to make sure, though.
I have Kimber Pepper Blaster II which is sort of like a less than lethal derringer. I also have a sap to fall back on and all this is secondary to my handgun.
Personally don't like multiple levels of escalation, because odds are if Plan A doesn't work, you need to go straight to Plan Kill Em All and don't have time to wander about somewhere between them.
That’s something that I have considered. However if I decide ahead of time that the only thing I’m carrying will be the handgun there could be issues if I light some drunk bully up when a couple of doses of spice or a judicious application of leather and lead could have done the trick then I just set myself up for a lot of paperwork. And I have had more events where slapping a loudmouth with a palm sap was what I did and I walked away from the scene and never heard another word
Oh I wasn't clear.
I mean one non-lethal solution and one lethal. There's certainly situations where you want that intermediate step (one aggressive dog, one aggressive drunk) before spilling blood, but having multiple paths of escalation are not going to filter well in a tense moment.