"We do away with the SAVE Act, in return, the requirement to register to vote is exactly the requirement to purchase a firearm from a dealer in your State."
For extra spittle, make it the level of ID required for ANY government assistance.
Yes indeed. Applying for SNAP, TANF, rent assistance or low-income housing, Medicare/Medicaid, etc., all require the same valid ID the SAVE Act would require in order to vote.
Alternatively, if the Left wants to keep the vetting for voting to a very low, unobtrusive level so that people can exercise that right with the fewest impediments then I want the same for buying a gun. I remember a time when we could buy firearms through a mail order catalog and have the postal service deliver them to our house. Were we a safer, saner society back then? Yes.
Most don't know that having a higher level clearance often causes the NICS delay. There's a flag on your name in NCIC, and the NICS folks have to clear the flag to issue a PROCEED. SO they have to contact the agency that flagged you before they can approve you.
I was in the military (with a TS) back when "militias" were a thing. I had to counsel (unofficially) an airman that was interested. I was able to educate him on the risks to his clearance and such, and provide him with an education on the militia ideas versus the Constitution and the Founders.
I caught a delay because I'd gone to one Friendly Local Gardening Supply Store and made a multiple purchase early in the month, then went to my other FLGSS and found a bucket piece with in thirty days.
Frigging shortest month of the year caught me out.
So, once upon a time The Darling Wife had gone, alone, to a gun show. Found a MSR (AR pattern) that she found appealing, and bought same. Has/had LTC/CPL, so, no drama, smooth, walked out with the gun.
Subsequently vacationed with Blue Hive Dwelling brother. He has a friend, similarly a BHD, who spouted off about this mythical "gun show loophole", which (a) he believed existed, and (b) was A Bad Thing.
I invited TDW to describe her process to buy the rifle THAT SHE HAD JUST BOUGHT.
The BHD, an Attorney, even, "corrected" her.
"That's not how that works!"
I asked him, "Rilly? Describe the process when you purchased your most recent firearm, please"
BHD: "Oh, I don't own any guns! I've never touched a gun!"
(My demon inner voice: Would you like to? Here we are!)
What followed was, er, spicy. I asked him if he thought my wife was lying, or was of such a level of imbecility that she could not recount her own experiences?
On the bright side, I *did* succeed in NOT busting a stein upside his head, so, that was my ice....
To quote Ronald Magus: "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
They're so indoctrinated that they will not, even cannot process any facts or evidence that goes against their indoctrination. The same as the more fringe of the kook conspiracy theorist, flat eathers, or sovereign citizens.
that we do away with all the damn paperwork. It doesnt make a difference in the end other than cause citizens endless aggravation.
If your old enought to vote or serve in the military your old enough to own a weapon. Pistol, rifle, shotgun or ffing sword. Doesnt matter. If your not old enough to own a weapon then your not old enough to vote or serve in the military, Or live on your own without a guardian. Your still a child.
If your a felon that has served your sentence, then your full rights are restored and your a citizen. If we dont feel you can be trusted then you can ffing stay behind bars. Not like they cant get a firearm anyways once they are out. Treating someone that has paid the price for fuckung up as a second class citezen in a dozen different ways just means they cant become a successful citizen even if they wanted to and forces them back into the grey or dark side if the law just to survive. Is this what the legal system calls job security?
Grrrr. Every one of these are only issues because politicians need fear issues to wirk voter up over.
Oh, your idea of getting the same vetting process to obtain a LTC in order to vote is a superior idea, Ian! Make it a Federal Law!
Here in good ol' New York State obtaining a Pistol License requires filling out 4 forms, obtaining a complete background check, fingerprints and mug shot, 16 hrs. of Classroom and 2 hrs. of Range training to a criteria established by the State Police (Due to NY's passion for complex, difficult to understand laws; the process is, for now, tenuously, in Civilian hands.), submit all material for bureaucratic processing and legal review by a County Agency to be issued by a State Supreme Court Judge.
Non-Citizens, Felons, habitual users of recreational pharmaceuticals, and those who have mental pathologies need not bother expending the resources to apply. Nor should they be voting for our rulers.
Oh, you still need to undergo a background check to purchase firearms and ammo in the State.... I'll save that ordeal for another rant...
No. Because the ID to vote is also necessary to keep the dead from voting and keep others from voting on your behalf. Also, there will always be some number of illegal aliens in the country.
I do not see what the fuss of ID to vote is. In my country it has been like that for years. It actually is more elaborate than that. A month before an election you receive your voting card with your name and address on it (not easy to counterfeit) by regular mail.
At the polling station there are three people. The first checks your voting card, along with passport or driver's license. The second person checks your name against the list of citizens in the municipal registry. If all is well, the third person gives you a paper ballot and you can vote.
This procedure prevents people from voting more than once and ensures that only citizens can vote. How on earth is that controversial? Oh, and anyone can stay there all day and observe the voting process and the counting of the votes at the polling station.
If you are unable to vote yourself, e.g. because you are traveling outside the country on election day, you can give someone else a Power of Attorney, along with a copy of your ID. Simple.
So well said. You need an ID to buy a car, insurance, a house, alcohol, tobacco, especially a firearm. Let's have them undergo a background check to vote, declare whether they have ever "renounced their citizenship."
We had a Philly Highway patrol man who had the same name and zip code as a convicted felon. He always got delayed . The LEO was black and the felon was white but it made no difference to NCIS
I'll go one step further. Change the law so that you have to prove citizenship to buy a gun or to vote. You may have to provide an address and proof of age to vote, however the 2nd Amendment says nothing about age or residence location for gun purchase. There are constitutional requirements for voting.
Oh, and neither gun ownership or voting is constitutionally allowed for non-citizens.
I disagree. Inalienable rights of which self defense is one. Bill of rights protects your inalienable right (god given rights) you have them as a human not a citizen. Bill of rights supposedly just keeps political animals from infringing them. Not giving you something you already have. Nothing in that concept says illegal aliens, foreigners or freaking Martians dont have inalienable rights.
Voting isnt universal. It just has to do with citizens organizing the polity that they live in. So yes we can ask you to prove you live here.
The primary reason to not allow illegal aliens the right to keep and bear arms is that they are here illegally. They are essentially invaders, and we shouldn't allow invaders to be armed (or to remain).
<em>Martians dont have inalienable rights.</em>
Chekov: We do believe all planets have a sovereign claim to inalienable human rights.
Azetbur: Inalien? If you could only hear yourselves. Human rights. Why, the very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a "homo sapiens only" club.
Yeah, the reason that those can be used in lieu of a background check is that you undergo a more thorough background check when you apply for it. Including submitting finger prints.
"We do away with the SAVE Act, in return, the requirement to register to vote is exactly the requirement to purchase a firearm from a dealer in your State."
For extra spittle, make it the level of ID required for ANY government assistance.
Yes indeed. Applying for SNAP, TANF, rent assistance or low-income housing, Medicare/Medicaid, etc., all require the same valid ID the SAVE Act would require in order to vote.
And yet, millions of people still receive them.
Actually, impose the background check on government "assistance." THAT would get some attention (and no more Minnedishu).
Alternatively, if the Left wants to keep the vetting for voting to a very low, unobtrusive level so that people can exercise that right with the fewest impediments then I want the same for buying a gun. I remember a time when we could buy firearms through a mail order catalog and have the postal service deliver them to our house. Were we a safer, saner society back then? Yes.
AMEN!
But the reason we could do that is BECAUSE we were a safer, saner society back then. Progressivism had not yet sunk its fangs in deep enough.
Most don't know that having a higher level clearance often causes the NICS delay. There's a flag on your name in NCIC, and the NICS folks have to clear the flag to issue a PROCEED. SO they have to contact the agency that flagged you before they can approve you.
Back in the Clinton Admin, being an NRA Life Member would also get you a few second looks on clearances. "Yew one of them militia nuts?"
I was in the military (with a TS) back when "militias" were a thing. I had to counsel (unofficially) an airman that was interested. I was able to educate him on the risks to his clearance and such, and provide him with an education on the militia ideas versus the Constitution and the Founders.
I caught a delay because I'd gone to one Friendly Local Gardening Supply Store and made a multiple purchase early in the month, then went to my other FLGSS and found a bucket piece with in thirty days.
Frigging shortest month of the year caught me out.
So, once upon a time The Darling Wife had gone, alone, to a gun show. Found a MSR (AR pattern) that she found appealing, and bought same. Has/had LTC/CPL, so, no drama, smooth, walked out with the gun.
Subsequently vacationed with Blue Hive Dwelling brother. He has a friend, similarly a BHD, who spouted off about this mythical "gun show loophole", which (a) he believed existed, and (b) was A Bad Thing.
I invited TDW to describe her process to buy the rifle THAT SHE HAD JUST BOUGHT.
The BHD, an Attorney, even, "corrected" her.
"That's not how that works!"
I asked him, "Rilly? Describe the process when you purchased your most recent firearm, please"
BHD: "Oh, I don't own any guns! I've never touched a gun!"
(My demon inner voice: Would you like to? Here we are!)
What followed was, er, spicy. I asked him if he thought my wife was lying, or was of such a level of imbecility that she could not recount her own experiences?
On the bright side, I *did* succeed in NOT busting a stein upside his head, so, that was my ice....
To quote Ronald Magus: "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
They're so indoctrinated that they will not, even cannot process any facts or evidence that goes against their indoctrination. The same as the more fringe of the kook conspiracy theorist, flat eathers, or sovereign citizens.
I love this idea!
My opinion is
that we do away with all the damn paperwork. It doesnt make a difference in the end other than cause citizens endless aggravation.
If your old enought to vote or serve in the military your old enough to own a weapon. Pistol, rifle, shotgun or ffing sword. Doesnt matter. If your not old enough to own a weapon then your not old enough to vote or serve in the military, Or live on your own without a guardian. Your still a child.
If your a felon that has served your sentence, then your full rights are restored and your a citizen. If we dont feel you can be trusted then you can ffing stay behind bars. Not like they cant get a firearm anyways once they are out. Treating someone that has paid the price for fuckung up as a second class citezen in a dozen different ways just means they cant become a successful citizen even if they wanted to and forces them back into the grey or dark side if the law just to survive. Is this what the legal system calls job security?
Grrrr. Every one of these are only issues because politicians need fear issues to wirk voter up over.
.
"If we dont feel you can be trusted then you can ffing stay behind bars."
^^THIS^^
Oh, your idea of getting the same vetting process to obtain a LTC in order to vote is a superior idea, Ian! Make it a Federal Law!
Here in good ol' New York State obtaining a Pistol License requires filling out 4 forms, obtaining a complete background check, fingerprints and mug shot, 16 hrs. of Classroom and 2 hrs. of Range training to a criteria established by the State Police (Due to NY's passion for complex, difficult to understand laws; the process is, for now, tenuously, in Civilian hands.), submit all material for bureaucratic processing and legal review by a County Agency to be issued by a State Supreme Court Judge.
Non-Citizens, Felons, habitual users of recreational pharmaceuticals, and those who have mental pathologies need not bother expending the resources to apply. Nor should they be voting for our rulers.
Oh, you still need to undergo a background check to purchase firearms and ammo in the State.... I'll save that ordeal for another rant...
The whole ID to vote issue goes away if there aren't any non-citizens here.
No. Because the ID to vote is also necessary to keep the dead from voting and keep others from voting on your behalf. Also, there will always be some number of illegal aliens in the country.
I've made similar arguments for at least three decades. The most common response?
"But that's different!"
Aka: we value one of those rights, but not the other.
I do not see what the fuss of ID to vote is. In my country it has been like that for years. It actually is more elaborate than that. A month before an election you receive your voting card with your name and address on it (not easy to counterfeit) by regular mail.
At the polling station there are three people. The first checks your voting card, along with passport or driver's license. The second person checks your name against the list of citizens in the municipal registry. If all is well, the third person gives you a paper ballot and you can vote.
This procedure prevents people from voting more than once and ensures that only citizens can vote. How on earth is that controversial? Oh, and anyone can stay there all day and observe the voting process and the counting of the votes at the polling station.
If you are unable to vote yourself, e.g. because you are traveling outside the country on election day, you can give someone else a Power of Attorney, along with a copy of your ID. Simple.
The overt reason is vote suppression from the bad old days of Jim Crow, where various ways and means were used to keep black people from voting.
That excuse isn't actually a thing anymore, but it IS a nice way to open the polls up to potential fraud.
Ironically, if illegal immigrants were to start trending Republican, those opposed to voter ID now would be shamelessly crying for it.
Funny thing is, one of the methods of voter suppression (in the bad days) was to have armed men (of the right sort) hanging around the polling places.
But the oh-so-interested-in-rights crowd refused to prosecute a group for doing exactly that during the 2008 elections.
So well said. You need an ID to buy a car, insurance, a house, alcohol, tobacco, especially a firearm. Let's have them undergo a background check to vote, declare whether they have ever "renounced their citizenship."
We had a Philly Highway patrol man who had the same name and zip code as a convicted felon. He always got delayed . The LEO was black and the felon was white but it made no difference to NCIS
This is a great idea Ian. So what is the chance we can put it into effect?
I'll go one step further. Change the law so that you have to prove citizenship to buy a gun or to vote. You may have to provide an address and proof of age to vote, however the 2nd Amendment says nothing about age or residence location for gun purchase. There are constitutional requirements for voting.
Oh, and neither gun ownership or voting is constitutionally allowed for non-citizens.
I disagree. Inalienable rights of which self defense is one. Bill of rights protects your inalienable right (god given rights) you have them as a human not a citizen. Bill of rights supposedly just keeps political animals from infringing them. Not giving you something you already have. Nothing in that concept says illegal aliens, foreigners or freaking Martians dont have inalienable rights.
Voting isnt universal. It just has to do with citizens organizing the polity that they live in. So yes we can ask you to prove you live here.
The primary reason to not allow illegal aliens the right to keep and bear arms is that they are here illegally. They are essentially invaders, and we shouldn't allow invaders to be armed (or to remain).
<em>Martians dont have inalienable rights.</em>
Chekov: We do believe all planets have a sovereign claim to inalienable human rights.
Azetbur: Inalien? If you could only hear yourselves. Human rights. Why, the very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a "homo sapiens only" club.
I will grant extra charges for armed in the comission of a crime.
“That which does not infringe on the exercise of one right, shouldn’t infringe on the exercise of another right.”
Your logic is impeccable. I suggest setting the baseline on what is required to exercise any of your First Amendment rights.
Yeah, the reason that those can be used in lieu of a background check is that you undergo a more thorough background check when you apply for it. Including submitting finger prints.