I suspect that Hawala is one of those things that if it didn’t exist, someone would have to invent it. I also suspect that the Knights Templar modified the idea for their own usa.
Sounds a lot like the original system set up by the Templars at the time of the crusades to protect pilgrims from being robbed on their way to the holy lands.
historically, that's viewed as the origin of banking. Seems that in that part of the world, it stayed that way. I like it, but I sure see why The State does not. No record, no way to tax, no way to stick your intrusive nose in, and no way to make sure you get your baksheesh.
Love it or hate it, I can see hawala having great appeal to us Westerners once our government creates a cashless society which they'll tout as being in our best interest and so-o-o convenient. But I suspect that when the time comes we will no longer be a society of trust or common bonds. We'll just be simply screwed.
And Mackey Chandler used this system in his April series to bypass the unethical behavior of the Terran/US government with respect to the rebellious entities. Fascinating.
don't feel bad. I'm up to book 6 of the April series, and I'm suspecting that both of us are remembering it used in the Family Law series, where there was Alien Interaction from early on.
'' "No. It's not foolish at all," Jeff agreed. "I'll tell you something else. Before central banking, both the Arabians and the Chinese had their own systems of money management based on networks of individually responsible local money lenders and merchants. I will try to create a business plan that highlights a trusted responsible manager to mirror that system instead of the Western corporate model. That is how we work it at the System Bank. Home has no laws authorizing or governing corporations. It's just been a disadvantage to promote that difference to Americans and Europeans. They aren't comfortable with the concept of depending on personal integrity. Somehow, they still believe integrity can be imposed by law and regulation. I'll consider the idea and get back to you." ""
Chandler, Mackey. And What Goes Around (April series Book 6) (p. 221). Kindle Edition.
Sigh. Used to be able to remmember title author and total plot of 10's of thousands of books, now not so much. Cant remember what book i read yesterday. Just that i enjoyed it. If i start it again i will remember. Makes it really frustrating recomending that great book you just read
That was truly fascinating. I actually had experience with a modified version of it in a small niche industry I am not going specify. Here in the USA. The problem was basic. One happens when one guy defaults. In Somalia. or Graustarkistan no problem hes dead. Somewhere else. There is a problem. But you know a lot of interesting things and concepts. The last person I knew like that was my late father, who had some interesting friends.
I’ve only known such systems from literature. It strikes me that the hawala system described appears fairly parallel to the way “credit” is extended across distances in “The Count of Monte Cristo”.
Perhaps as reliable a credential as most any other, and I'd be unsurprised to find that their (hypothetical?) cross-town rivals claim to have moved money for the Carthaginians.
I suspect that if you were to ask around Damascus, you could find a family that could make an honest claim to have dealt with Abraham and the other Biblical patriarchs.
I suspect that Hawala is one of those things that if it didn’t exist, someone would have to invent it. I also suspect that the Knights Templar modified the idea for their own usa.
Templars and Hospitallers were both heavily involved in hawala.
Sounds a lot like the original system set up by the Templars at the time of the crusades to protect pilgrims from being robbed on their way to the holy lands.
Exactly such.
historically, that's viewed as the origin of banking. Seems that in that part of the world, it stayed that way. I like it, but I sure see why The State does not. No record, no way to tax, no way to stick your intrusive nose in, and no way to make sure you get your baksheesh.
Love it or hate it, I can see hawala having great appeal to us Westerners once our government creates a cashless society which they'll tout as being in our best interest and so-o-o convenient. But I suspect that when the time comes we will no longer be a society of trust or common bonds. We'll just be simply screwed.
You have just describe public and private keys in networking. Literally.
And Mackey Chandler used this system in his April series to bypass the unethical behavior of the Terran/US government with respect to the rebellious entities. Fascinating.
I have read, as far as I know, all of that series, but had never made that connection. Thank you and Ian for some food for thought.
it was only used in one of the books if I remember right.
no, it was used in one form or another in several books, especially within the alien communities
Hm.. ok guess im not remembering then.
don't feel bad. I'm up to book 6 of the April series, and I'm suspecting that both of us are remembering it used in the Family Law series, where there was Alien Interaction from early on.
found one direct reference to the hawala system:
'' "No. It's not foolish at all," Jeff agreed. "I'll tell you something else. Before central banking, both the Arabians and the Chinese had their own systems of money management based on networks of individually responsible local money lenders and merchants. I will try to create a business plan that highlights a trusted responsible manager to mirror that system instead of the Western corporate model. That is how we work it at the System Bank. Home has no laws authorizing or governing corporations. It's just been a disadvantage to promote that difference to Americans and Europeans. They aren't comfortable with the concept of depending on personal integrity. Somehow, they still believe integrity can be imposed by law and regulation. I'll consider the idea and get back to you." ""
Chandler, Mackey. And What Goes Around (April series Book 6) (p. 221). Kindle Edition.
Love rhe april story but family law is better.
Sigh. Used to be able to remmember title author and total plot of 10's of thousands of books, now not so much. Cant remember what book i read yesterday. Just that i enjoyed it. If i start it again i will remember. Makes it really frustrating recomending that great book you just read
Love mackey chandlers books.
Thanks for the education.
This system has also existed in Rural America; trading on goods or services of value.
That was truly fascinating. I actually had experience with a modified version of it in a small niche industry I am not going specify. Here in the USA. The problem was basic. One happens when one guy defaults. In Somalia. or Graustarkistan no problem hes dead. Somewhere else. There is a problem. But you know a lot of interesting things and concepts. The last person I knew like that was my late father, who had some interesting friends.
"Depending on how much business he does with the hawaladar. Knowing Chris, if he ever paid more than 3% on any transaction I’ll be mortally shocked."
This footnote amused me.
I’ve only known such systems from literature. It strikes me that the hawala system described appears fairly parallel to the way “credit” is extended across distances in “The Count of Monte Cristo”.
I’ve heard Djellibeen is lovely in the spring, what with all the pastel colors.
“Alas! Earwax!”
I think it's quite useful and I wonder if it could be instated in the west.
Apparently it's been installed in Minnesota.
I was thinking in terms of a version useful to the general public, not just a fraud pipeline. Hawala Express, don't dash off without it.
Seems to me the name Rothscild is among the notables of this system, seeng as they too have been at it a milennia or so.🙂
Millennia? Hardly. At most three centuries.
There are hawaladar families in Morocco who claim to have dealt with Romans.
Perhaps as reliable a credential as most any other, and I'd be unsurprised to find that their (hypothetical?) cross-town rivals claim to have moved money for the Carthaginians.
I suspect that if you were to ask around Damascus, you could find a family that could make an honest claim to have dealt with Abraham and the other Biblical patriarchs.
Pardon the typo - Rothschild is perhaps closer to it
Graustark reference. Love it.
Leave it alone? Hell no: I want to incorporate it into my stories now!
So the solution is keeping all scumalians out of The West!
First you must keep them out of government. This message will self destruct. Good luck.
Sounds like Western Union used this system as well.