The wife and I found a C-TECC Active Bystander course packaged with a Stop the Bleed. course. It was 8 hours well spent.
Fully support the firearms training mentioned. All are top tier. But after the class, shoot weekly or at least twice a month. A thousand rounds of 9mm is ~$250 shipped to your door if you live in a free state. An hour at the range with 50 rounds is 20 sessions to keep those new skills sharp.
As a member of the church we have planning/training meetings once or twice a year on what to do in situations like this. When we did it I tried to cover fatal hesitation and how to overcome it and so did the instructor who was a fire chief. I think there will be a lot more guns next Sunday that we won't see
I expect there have been all along, but it would be unseemly of me to speculate as to who. I am pleased to know there are sheepdogs among the flock, standing at the ready.
To add some additional Trainers on here (this will NOT cover all of them)
Steve Fisher of Sentinel Concepts (Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun)
Erick Gelhaus of Cougar Mountain Solutions (Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun) and Gunsite Instructor
John Hearne of Two Pillars Training (decision making, cognitive load, human performance)
Cecil Burch of Immediate Action Combatives (entangled fight and hand to hand)
Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck Consulting (rifle and pistol advanced)
Rob and Matt Haught of Symtax Consulting (Shotgun Extraordinaire)
John Murphy (basic all around get back home training with pistol, OC, etc)
Tom Givens of Rangemaster (pistol and shotgun and look for instructors trained by Rangemaster)
Aqil and Tiffany of Citizens Safety Academy (primarily pistol )
From Kjells list all of which are solid:
360 Performance Shooting (Ashton Ray and Tim Chandler show) any gun performance. Especially shotgun.
Craig Douglas: CQB, any flavor
Brian Hill: pistol performance/making decisions
Chris Cypert: pistol performance/decision making.
Tactical Defense Institute Ohio: any of it.
Ed Monk: Active Shooter
There are a LOT of national level trainers out there to look for in your area and look for actual solid trainers that are local, and granted those are much harder to find actual Good instructors.
Classes are less expensive overall but you are one among many, good private instruction while more expensive is focused on YOU specifically and you can often progress faster with a good instructor than you would in a class.
One further thing is, the "I was in the military, I was a cop, I've been around guns all my life" things that people say does NOT mean you are current or even as good as you might think you are. If you don't have any real data (time vs accuracy etc) and all you know is you can hit a man sized target when you have all the time in the world doesn't mean when you have no time and you have to hit a relatively SMALL target to actually stop someone before they do you harm are often two very different things. If you are in the MeadHall area we know at least a little bit about teaching you to be better with a firearm, come find us or find someone that is actually good at what they do. An NRA instructor saying he is going to "teach you to be a gunfighter" most likely isn't.
The IDPA group I shot with for a while (still technically a member, but life keeps interfering) would frequently add the "West Freeway Church of Christ" stage to their matches. 16 yards, 1 round, cranial vault is the only valid target, par time 1 second. Even just in competition, that's a pretty spicy shot. I very much admire Mr. Wilson for being able to make a radical adjustment to his reality and make that shot.
And I make sure to do it (as honestly as I can) every time I go to the range. I can make a bridge-of-the-nose shot about 50% of the time, but I'm on the head somewhere about 80% of the time.
I was very happy with the Stop the Bleed class I took recently. Book learning and videos are fine but a few hours of hands on training and practice worked better for me. Actually applying tourniquets, packing gauze into simulated wounds, and wrapping it up with a pressure dressing under the eyes of a trained instructor can change "No, you're doing it wrong" into "Yes! You got it. Good job."
We're in the process of standing up a safety team at my church even as we speak. And the emphasis is on all-around safety. If you're not up to pulling triggers, that ain't an issue. We need hole-pluggers and people-watchers at least as much.
One of the things on my list of things to do is to start making the rounds at the local EMS stations and the hospital to see if I can get a certified stop-the-bleed instructor to come in and (re)certify the lot of us. We're also going to start reaching out to see if we can find a good combat medical instructor in the area to come in.
Also, as an additional resource, Mountain Man Medical has a video course on Emergency Trauma Response that they offer for no cost:
They're good folks - I've taken Brian McGlaughlin's courses in person.
And I agree with everyone else. Get training. Preferably Church Safety training, but even standard CCW training will help. Then get ammo and practice. Also, I'm a big fan of the Mantis X dry-fire training tool. It doesn't replace live fire, but it is a necessary adjunct.
Don't forget the "regular" medical training, too. AEDs, CPR, just knowing how to treat shock or keep someone from dying before the ambulance gets there when someone has a heart attack or a fainting spell and falls down. You're more likely to have someone have a minor (or major) medical emergency during worship than to have an armed madman attack.
Make regular medical stuff (and kids being stupid) part of your safety and security plans.
Roger that, and we agree 100%. Tomorrow's our monthly potluck after services, and we'll be asking the nascent safety team (and any other interested party) to stick around and watch the instruction video for the new AED we just bought.
Some years ago, I attended a seminar taught by Tina Lewis Rowe on "Safety And Security In Houses Of Worship". If Ms. Rowe is still doing these seminars, I recommend it highly.
About 20 years ago, I came to the conclusion that certain places of religious worship were magnets for the depradation of evildoers. Synagogues, Roman Catholic churches and some Fundamental Christians seemed highly attracted. Excellent advice offered again.
I recognized my God given right to exist until He, and He alone, ended my earthly run outweigh the pernicious pearl clutching bleating of sanctimonious sheeple to "turn the other cheek". So I will have my tools of defense with me; along with skills in survival when I attend weekly services.
For the sanctimonious sheeple of my Church:
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that self-defense is a legitimate right, allowing individuals to protect their own lives or the lives of others from unjust aggressors. It emphasizes that while one may use necessary force, the response must be proportionate and not exceed what is required to repel the threat."
I will happily turn the other cheek in a great many circumstances. And if it comes down to MY life because I worship my God, then I will happily rely on naught but His power and His will. But if someone wants to harm an innocent? No, that I will fight for. Someone just wants to shoot or knife me for my money or because I'm standing there? No.
Our church also hosts a school, so no one other than law enforcement can legally carry guns on the property, because of a combination of state law and county policy. I bet there are more guns there than cops, though, most days. It's just unfortunate that people aren't more familiar with Ed Monk's "First 30 Seconds" book...
That's what your concealed carry insurance is for. Let that lawyer handle the bit where you technically violated that law if, God forbid, you had to defend your fellow worshippers.
Along with the first aid training, get a good trauma/first aid kit. I have one in each of my vehicles (including motorcycle saddlebags), and one in the bag I take in to work every day.
"I seriously suggest that if your place of worship is one such, that you stand up at the next service, tell the guy at the pulpit that you refuse to allow your family to go to a place that removes your ability — and duty — to protect them, walk your family out, and go somewhere with saner weapons policies."
Amen to that. I might add to that, for the dimmer clergy, a statement such as, "...and I tithe, ya know, Bucko". Whatever it takes to get the message through.
That tithe thing..... Just about all Christian churches I've been in pass the plate/basket through the assembled faithful. If these attacks don't stop, maybe I'll put a box of 50 45 ACP HP ammo in it. That 'll get some tounge's wagging...and confirm a lot of suspicions!
Good idea, but. 50 rounds of ninja quality Super Black Talon Bonded Depleted Uranium Metalicized Meplat .45 ACP +P+ ammo might be pricier than tithing. Donate that aluminum or steel case 230gr ball ammo you bought back in the post-Sandy Hook ammo famine. The ignint quasitard pulpitypes might accuse you of being passive-aggressive, but hey, why not do it on the cheap, right, Tom? Keep your good ammo.
Watch any video you can find with Dr. William Aprill.
The wife and I found a C-TECC Active Bystander course packaged with a Stop the Bleed. course. It was 8 hours well spent.
Fully support the firearms training mentioned. All are top tier. But after the class, shoot weekly or at least twice a month. A thousand rounds of 9mm is ~$250 shipped to your door if you live in a free state. An hour at the range with 50 rounds is 20 sessions to keep those new skills sharp.
They hate you. Train like it.
As a member of the church we have planning/training meetings once or twice a year on what to do in situations like this. When we did it I tried to cover fatal hesitation and how to overcome it and so did the instructor who was a fire chief. I think there will be a lot more guns next Sunday that we won't see
I expect there have been all along, but it would be unseemly of me to speculate as to who. I am pleased to know there are sheepdogs among the flock, standing at the ready.
To add some additional Trainers on here (this will NOT cover all of them)
Steve Fisher of Sentinel Concepts (Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun)
Erick Gelhaus of Cougar Mountain Solutions (Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun) and Gunsite Instructor
John Hearne of Two Pillars Training (decision making, cognitive load, human performance)
Cecil Burch of Immediate Action Combatives (entangled fight and hand to hand)
Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck Consulting (rifle and pistol advanced)
Rob and Matt Haught of Symtax Consulting (Shotgun Extraordinaire)
John Murphy (basic all around get back home training with pistol, OC, etc)
Tom Givens of Rangemaster (pistol and shotgun and look for instructors trained by Rangemaster)
Aqil and Tiffany of Citizens Safety Academy (primarily pistol )
From Kjells list all of which are solid:
360 Performance Shooting (Ashton Ray and Tim Chandler show) any gun performance. Especially shotgun.
Craig Douglas: CQB, any flavor
Brian Hill: pistol performance/making decisions
Chris Cypert: pistol performance/decision making.
Tactical Defense Institute Ohio: any of it.
Ed Monk: Active Shooter
There are a LOT of national level trainers out there to look for in your area and look for actual solid trainers that are local, and granted those are much harder to find actual Good instructors.
Classes are less expensive overall but you are one among many, good private instruction while more expensive is focused on YOU specifically and you can often progress faster with a good instructor than you would in a class.
One further thing is, the "I was in the military, I was a cop, I've been around guns all my life" things that people say does NOT mean you are current or even as good as you might think you are. If you don't have any real data (time vs accuracy etc) and all you know is you can hit a man sized target when you have all the time in the world doesn't mean when you have no time and you have to hit a relatively SMALL target to actually stop someone before they do you harm are often two very different things. If you are in the MeadHall area we know at least a little bit about teaching you to be better with a firearm, come find us or find someone that is actually good at what they do. An NRA instructor saying he is going to "teach you to be a gunfighter" most likely isn't.
Thank you, Bill.
The IDPA group I shot with for a while (still technically a member, but life keeps interfering) would frequently add the "West Freeway Church of Christ" stage to their matches. 16 yards, 1 round, cranial vault is the only valid target, par time 1 second. Even just in competition, that's a pretty spicy shot. I very much admire Mr. Wilson for being able to make a radical adjustment to his reality and make that shot.
And I make sure to do it (as honestly as I can) every time I go to the range. I can make a bridge-of-the-nose shot about 50% of the time, but I'm on the head somewhere about 80% of the time.
I was very happy with the Stop the Bleed class I took recently. Book learning and videos are fine but a few hours of hands on training and practice worked better for me. Actually applying tourniquets, packing gauze into simulated wounds, and wrapping it up with a pressure dressing under the eyes of a trained instructor can change "No, you're doing it wrong" into "Yes! You got it. Good job."
Remember, if the tourniquet don't hurt, you ain't doing it right! :)
So... Bill and I mostly play with the same people but Im going to give a list anyway.
Tom Givens practical pistol and shotgun
John Hearne improving decision making and preparation for pistol fights
Greg Ellifritz: CQB. Pistol. Shotgun. First aid. Less lethal
John Murphy: overview of concealed carry issues
360 Performance Shooting (Ashton Ray and Tim Chandler show) any gun performance. Especially shotgun.
Craig Douglas: CQB, any flavor
Brian Hill: pistol performance/making decisions
Chris Cypert: pistol performance/decision making.
Tactical Defense Institute Ohio: any of it.
Ed Monk: Active Shooter
Mas Ayoob: legal stuff you need to know
Obviously, this list is not exhaustive and I am available in Northern Indiana for a wide variety of training as well.
Thank you, Kjell.
For sure! Always happy to facilitate training!
I've taken classes from Brian Hill and Chris Cypert, and can vouch for the both of them.
We're in the process of standing up a safety team at my church even as we speak. And the emphasis is on all-around safety. If you're not up to pulling triggers, that ain't an issue. We need hole-pluggers and people-watchers at least as much.
One of the things on my list of things to do is to start making the rounds at the local EMS stations and the hospital to see if I can get a certified stop-the-bleed instructor to come in and (re)certify the lot of us. We're also going to start reaching out to see if we can find a good combat medical instructor in the area to come in.
Also, as an additional resource, Mountain Man Medical has a video course on Emergency Trauma Response that they offer for no cost:
https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/trauma-medicine-training/
They're good folks - I've taken Brian McGlaughlin's courses in person.
And I agree with everyone else. Get training. Preferably Church Safety training, but even standard CCW training will help. Then get ammo and practice. Also, I'm a big fan of the Mantis X dry-fire training tool. It doesn't replace live fire, but it is a necessary adjunct.
Don't forget the "regular" medical training, too. AEDs, CPR, just knowing how to treat shock or keep someone from dying before the ambulance gets there when someone has a heart attack or a fainting spell and falls down. You're more likely to have someone have a minor (or major) medical emergency during worship than to have an armed madman attack.
Make regular medical stuff (and kids being stupid) part of your safety and security plans.
Roger that, and we agree 100%. Tomorrow's our monthly potluck after services, and we'll be asking the nascent safety team (and any other interested party) to stick around and watch the instruction video for the new AED we just bought.
Some years ago, I attended a seminar taught by Tina Lewis Rowe on "Safety And Security In Houses Of Worship". If Ms. Rowe is still doing these seminars, I recommend it highly.
There's so much iron in our church, you'd think it was the SHOT show if everyone whipped 'em out at once. I love Arizona.
Trainers: anyone authorized by Dave Spaulding to teach his Handgun Combatives.
Medical: Jonathan Willis, https://trainwithwillis.com/
Amen to all of this. Get trained, get armed, carry consistently, and (most of all) be aware.
About 20 years ago, I came to the conclusion that certain places of religious worship were magnets for the depradation of evildoers. Synagogues, Roman Catholic churches and some Fundamental Christians seemed highly attracted. Excellent advice offered again.
I recognized my God given right to exist until He, and He alone, ended my earthly run outweigh the pernicious pearl clutching bleating of sanctimonious sheeple to "turn the other cheek". So I will have my tools of defense with me; along with skills in survival when I attend weekly services.
For the sanctimonious sheeple of my Church:
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that self-defense is a legitimate right, allowing individuals to protect their own lives or the lives of others from unjust aggressors. It emphasizes that while one may use necessary force, the response must be proportionate and not exceed what is required to repel the threat."
I will happily turn the other cheek in a great many circumstances. And if it comes down to MY life because I worship my God, then I will happily rely on naught but His power and His will. But if someone wants to harm an innocent? No, that I will fight for. Someone just wants to shoot or knife me for my money or because I'm standing there? No.
Our church also hosts a school, so no one other than law enforcement can legally carry guns on the property, because of a combination of state law and county policy. I bet there are more guns there than cops, though, most days. It's just unfortunate that people aren't more familiar with Ed Monk's "First 30 Seconds" book...
That's what your concealed carry insurance is for. Let that lawyer handle the bit where you technically violated that law if, God forbid, you had to defend your fellow worshippers.
Just purchased "First 30 Seconds" on your recommendation.
I am adding this to my current pile of things for a church security and safety team I'm proposing.
Thank you, Ian.
Along with the first aid training, get a good trauma/first aid kit. I have one in each of my vehicles (including motorcycle saddlebags), and one in the bag I take in to work every day.
"I seriously suggest that if your place of worship is one such, that you stand up at the next service, tell the guy at the pulpit that you refuse to allow your family to go to a place that removes your ability — and duty — to protect them, walk your family out, and go somewhere with saner weapons policies."
Amen to that. I might add to that, for the dimmer clergy, a statement such as, "...and I tithe, ya know, Bucko". Whatever it takes to get the message through.
That tithe thing..... Just about all Christian churches I've been in pass the plate/basket through the assembled faithful. If these attacks don't stop, maybe I'll put a box of 50 45 ACP HP ammo in it. That 'll get some tounge's wagging...and confirm a lot of suspicions!
Good idea, but. 50 rounds of ninja quality Super Black Talon Bonded Depleted Uranium Metalicized Meplat .45 ACP +P+ ammo might be pricier than tithing. Donate that aluminum or steel case 230gr ball ammo you bought back in the post-Sandy Hook ammo famine. The ignint quasitard pulpitypes might accuse you of being passive-aggressive, but hey, why not do it on the cheap, right, Tom? Keep your good ammo.
No worries about supply. The good stuff remains in my vault. I would gift them some reloads I determined were not quite what I expected them to be.
Besides, for serious purposes, I prefer 10mm Auto.