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Leon Jester's avatar

Egad. The voice of reason. From a retired LEO no less.

Prepare to be excoriated by all sides and the middle, Ian. Thanks for writing for the voice of reason.

Epstein's death was inconvenient (or very convenient, YMMV) from the perspective of acquiring information more-or-less first-hand.

I will admit, not being a sworn officer, that given the opportunity I'd have used methods for which you'd have been forced (at least under the U.S. Constitution) to arrest me. Not that our government has ever used illegal methods of interrogation. Oh no, not us. Never.

ADDENDUM: No. No charcoal braziers, hammers or tongs. Scopolamine and it's successors come to mind. Accomplished interrogators (like the late David Drake) don't need them, just time. I'm sort of a knuckle-dragger, chemicals work.

FarmGirl's avatar

I freely admit I haven’t dug deep into it because I have not been in the headspace to handle horrors, but every time I see a claim about “pizza code” or “cream cheese” it makes me angry… because you’re right. The wild-ass theories are removing attention from actual victims.

I’ve been on both sides of the information fence regarding investigations, and I watch people make shit up out of whole cloth that I *know* is false all the time, even just in my little corner of the world. And just because no one who actually knows immediately steps up saying “that’s wrong” they run with it.

The thing so many people don’t understand, or refuse to acknowledge is this: if you are not in an investigative role, you will never get all of the information about any investigation. Ever. Active investigations require discretion and even secrecy to be effective. Multiple suspects will circle the wagons and get their stories straight, hide or destroy evidence, or disappear. Not to mention victims, particularly victims of violent or sexual crimes, deserve to not have their genuine trauma put up on billboards for the world to see.

It’s bad enough what victims go through to get justice in the easiest possible scenario: a simple investigation followed by charges and a plea deal. Even there the victim is traumatized again with at least one interview, and knowing that law enforcement, prosecution, defense counsel, and their abuser get to see it all. If it goes to trial it’s on show for a judge and or jury, all of the aforementioned, plus whoever chooses to attend. And in this day and age, criminal proceedings are live-streamed, increasing the exposure.

As a member of the public even if a case goes to trial and you’re there for every second… you still won’t find out everything. Evidence is cherry picked for trial, on both sides, things can be disregarded or disallowed. All of the details are not presented.

There’s a murder case in Texas County Oklahoma involving five defendants, two have taken plea deals for reduced sentences in return for testimony, one has pled no contest, and two are at this point planning to go to trial. One of those defendants’ counsel filed over twenty motions recently, including motions to remove the death penalty from consideration and- and I wish I were kidding about this- a motion asking the judge to order the victims families not to show emotion in the courtroom during trial. They seriously asked a judge to order the families of two women who were brutally murdered not to have facial expressions in the courtroom. Because it might influence a jury.

That is the level of fuckery possible in a trial, and things like that are why the public will never have all of the information about an investigation, until after the fact, and only if they get the records from every entity involved and go through it themselves. Even then, unless you know how to go through those records, (and let the evidence show its own conclusions) you aren’t going to be able to put all of the puzzle pieces together.

People need to stop creating more horror than already exists in that situation… the real victims do not deserve to be disregarded for wild ass conspiracy theories.

Ok rant over.

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